Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/02/1996 08:10 AM House STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                            
                         April 2, 1996                                         
                           8:10 a.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Jeannette James, Chair                                         
 Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chair                                         
 Representative Joe Green                                                      
 Representative Ivan Ivan                                                      
 Representative Brian Porter                                                   
 Representative Caren Robinson                                                 
 Representative Ed Willis                                                      
                                                                               
 OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                   
                                                                               
 Representative Gene Kubina                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                        
                                                                               
 Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                    
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 All members present                                                           
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 Presentation:  High Frequency Activity Auroral Research Program               
                (HAARP)                                                        
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 JOHN HECKSCHIR, HAARP Program Manager                                         
 Phillips Laboratory                                                           
 Geophysics Ionospheric Applications                                           
 29 Randolph Road                                                              
 Hanscom AFB, MA 01731-3010                                                    
 Telephone:  (617) 377-5121                                                    
 Facsimile:  (617) 377-3550                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. NICK BEGICH, Author, Angels Don't Play this HAARP                         
 P.O. Box 201393                                                               
 Anchorage, AK 99520                                                           
 Facsimile:  (907) 696-1277                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. PATRICK FLANAGAN                                                          
 C/O Dr. Nick Begich                                                           
 P.O. Box 201393                                                               
 Anchorage, AK 99520                                                           
 MARK FARMER, Investigative Reporter                                           
 P.O. Box 2208                                                                 
 Juneau, AK 99802                                                              
 Telephone:  (907) 364-2340                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. RICHARD WILLIAMS, Physical Chemist                                        
 SARNOFF Lab, Princeton                                                        
 25 Wheat Sheaf Lane                                                           
 Princeton, NJ 08500                                                           
 Telephone:  (609) 924-9545                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. SYUN-ICHI AKASOFU, Director                                               
 Geophysical Institute                                                         
 University of Alaska, Fairbanks                                               
 Fairbanks, AK 99775                                                           
 Telephone:  (907) 474-7282                                                    
 Facsimile:  (907) 474-5882                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. WILLIAM GORDON                                                            
 Rice University                                                               
 Houston, TX 77251-1892                                                        
 Telephone:  (713) 527-6020                                                    
 Facsimile:  (713) 285-5143                                                    
                                                                               
 EDWARD KENNEDY, Naval Research Laboratory                                     
 Mail Stop 5550                                                                
 Naval Research Laboratory                                                     
 4555 Overlook Avenue, S.W.                                                    
 Washington, D.C. 20375                                                        
 Telephone:  (202) 767-2761                                                    
 Facsimile:  (202) 767-3377                                                    
                                                                               
 RICH GARCIA, Public Affairs Officer                                           
 Kirtland Air Force Base                                                       
 3550 Aberdeen Avenue, Southeast                                               
 Kirtland AFB, NM 87117-5776                                                   
 Telephone:  (505) 846-1911                                                    
 Facsimile:  (505) 846-0423                                                    
                                                                               
 WALT WILCOX, Legislative Assistant                                            
   to Representative Jeanette James                                            
 Capitol Building, Room 102                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3743                                                    
                                                                               
 TOM VAN BROCKLIN, Legislative Secretary                                       
   to Representative Gene Kubina                                               
 Capitol Building, Room 406                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4859                                                    
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
 TAPE 96-44, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 0015                                                                   
                                                                               
 The House State Affairs Committee was called to order by Chair                
 Jeannette James at 8:10 a.m.  Members present at the call to order            
 were Representatives Porter, Green, Ivan, Willis, Robinson, Ogan              
 and James.  No members were absent.                                           
                                                                               
 CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES explained the purpose of today's meeting was            
 to present information pertaining to the High Frequency Active                
 Auroral Research Project (HAARP).  She asked each presenter to                
 briefly describe their credentials before giving their                        
 presentation.                                                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the first presenter John Heckschir, HAARP               
 Program Manager.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 0210                                                                   
                                                                               
 JOHN HECKSCHIR, HAARP Program Manager, Phillips Laboratory,                   
 Geophysics Ionospheric Applications, testified via teleconference.            
 He explained he has been the manager for the past four years.  He             
 has a degree from Princeton University and a graduate degree from             
 John Hopkins University.  He thanked the committee members for the            
 opportunity to speak about HAARP.  He addressed the following three           
 questions:  What is harp?  Is it safe?  Is there a conspiracy                 
 involved?  He referred to the first question and said HAARP is a              
 national scientific research facility consisting of numerous radio            
 optical and magnetic field instruments assembled together to study            
 the composition (indisc.) and electric parameters of the upper                
 atmosphere and ionosphere.  The information gained by these studies           
 contributed to new and better methods of radio communication and to           
 a better understanding of the upper atmosphere.  For Alaska, in               
 particular, often experiences sudden severe communication                     
 disruptions.  The primary concern to some Alaskans is the portion             
 of HAARP known as the ionospheric research instrument.  This radio            
 transmitter transmits upward a narrow beam of high frequency that             
 is intended to induce small changes in the ionospheric structure              
 within a localized region to assimilate natural phenomena.  This              
 controlled beam was created by an array of antennas, each powered             
 by one commercial transmitter.  The current developmental prototype           
 is capable of 306 kilowatts of power.  The full scale instillation            
 will eventually provide up to 3,600 kilowatts of power.                       
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR said the second question is HAARP safe?  Is it safe             
 for humans and animals?  Is it safe to the ionosphere?  He said an            
 environmental impact statement published in July, 1993, included              
 calculations of local electric and magnetic fields which surrounded           
 the research instrument which showed they are smaller than                    
 established national safety standards permitted.  The fields                  
 measured during the testing of the developmental prototype                    
 confirmed and validated those calculations.  The HAARP has an on-             
 going liaison with an independent review by the Federal Air                   
 Aviation (FAA) to ensure that there was no impact on aircraft.                
 Aircraft alert radar will shut down flight operations when                    
 aircrafts are in the vicinity.  The FAA has a telephone hot line              
 established to allow them to rent access to HAARP's operation                 
 center.  The HAARP's record of decision requires it to operate                
 within established national safety standards, including those                 
 existing at the time of the record of decision signing as well as             
 those updated later.  They may be updated later during the life of            
 the facility.  Furthermore, numerous state and federal agencies               
 provide continued oversight and ensures adherence to these                    
 standards.  The HAARP is required to operate in a manner safe to              
 humans and animals.                                                           
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR referred to the question as to whether HAARP is safe            
 to the ionosphere and said the environmental impact statement                 
 includes analysis showing that far less energy is dissipated by               
 HAARP in the ionosphere compared to that produced by natural                  
 processes such as the auroral.  The impact statement concluded that           
 HAARP would have no adverse impact on the ionosphere.  In addition,           
 many years of operations by facilities similar to HAARP such as               
 those located in Alaska, Russia and Puerto Rico have shown no                 
 deleterious ionospheric affects.                                              
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR referred to the question of is HAARP a conspiracy for           
 some other purpose and said HAARP is completely unclassified.                 
 There are no classified documents pertaining to HAARP.  The                   
 environmental impact process documents, which include the final               
 environmental impact statement with its many technical supporting             
 documents, fully describe the facility to be constructed and                  
 governed its operations as well.  The design and operational                  
 parameters of the facility were established in coordination and               
 consultation with numerous ionospheric experts from many                      
 universities, government research scientists and commercial                   
 organizations.  Federal and state agencies are involved in                    
 environmental monitoring and continuing independent oversight of              
 HAARP construction and operation.  Furthermore, the record of                 
 decision requires the establishment of a radio frequency                      
 interference committee of local citizens for continued independent            
 community monitoring and input.  The HAARP sponsored an open house            
 at the facility in September, 1995.  The HAARP is developing an               
 out-reach program, in cooperation with the University of Alaska, to           
 involve the local high school in Glennallen.  He asserted HAARP is            
 not and could not be a secret agreement to do unlawful or wrongful            
 acts.  He thanked the committee members.                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Dr. Nick Begich.                    
                                                                               
 Number 0703                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. NICK BEGICH, Author, "Angels Don't Play this HAARP," said he              
 would talk about why we got involved in this project and what                 
 specifically the concerns were about in this project.  He announced           
 Dr. Patrick Flanagan was also on-line to answer any questions.  He            
 explained he was concerned about the direction of the project and             
 the lack of a team of biological scientists involved in the front             
 end of the work in terms of what these transmission could                     
 potentially environmentally and in terms of living organisms.                 
 Therefore, he took written statements associated with the project             
 and compared them with other government records of radio frequency            
 weapon systems surrounding the HAARP facility.  He reiterated he              
 was concerned about the direction of the research and where it will           
 go.  He referenced a document, "Technical Memorandum 195," which              
 describes where the parameters of the project are headed and where            
 the desired level of power are.  Dr. Begich noted they are pretty             
 substantial.  He said he was also concerned with the manner in                
 which the project had been characterized as purely research.  Any             
 weapons program development in its early stages could be                      
 characterized as research.  He was concerned about long-range                 
 development on the project in terms of what it could do as an                 
 integrated weapon system at higher power levels.  He said he was              
 careful to footnote his source material.  Dr. Begich said he did              
 not think a conspiracy was involved.  There is an interest in                 
 developing a research facility for their research purposes.  He               
 referred to the military as said he believes the desire is to                 
 develop the basic research necessary to bring on-line, in Alaska,             
 a full scale weapons system.  A careful review of the patten                  
 records would indicate exactly where this science goes.  He said it           
 certainly goes towards communications applications that the                   
 military freely acknowledges.  Also earth penetrating tomography              
 applications, and an over the horizon radar capability to                     
 discriminate against incoming objects.  All of these are spoken               
 clearly of in the public records.  He said he was concerned about             
 the higher power levels and the negative health affects.  There is            
 a substantial amount of material that discusses low levels of power           
 density and energy affecting human physiology.  That, is the most             
 important aspect of the project that had not been properly                    
 disclosed.  When you look at the background of this whole area of             
 debate, internationally, in terms of ionizing and non-ionizing                
 radiation, at the time HAARP began it was still in its infancy in             
 terms of discussion and debate.   He indicated it is many (indisc.)           
 conclusion that low energy densities, when their (indisc.) in the             
 right frequency range will have profound health affects.  This has            
 not been disclosed adequately in the EIS (environmental impact                
 statement).  He suggested there be more of a focus on that issue.             
                                                                               
 DR. BEGICH informed the committee members that Dr. Patrick Flanagan           
 was on-line to further address the issue.  He said Dr. Flanagan has           
 a doctorate in both medicine and physics which made him unique as             
 an individual.  He also had experience dealing with government                
 weapon projects.  Dr. Flanagan developed a guided missile detector            
 that when he was 11 years old which was sold to the Air Research              
 and Development Command at the Pentagon.  He later developed an               
 electronic communication system with the brain.  At the age of 17,            
 he also worked with the Hyatt Research Group which was a Pentagon             
 think tank run by the former head of the Pentagon's office of                 
 Scientific Research.  He developed speech and coding systems to be            
 used by intelligence groups in the United States.  At 19 years of             
 age he worked for NASA.  After NASA he worked for Tufts in the                
 Department of Mechanical Engineering.  While at Tufts he also                 
 worked on the (indisc.) Office of Naval Research at China Lake for            
 a communications project.  He also has a background of working at             
 the Aberdeen (indisc.) grounds for the Department of Unconventional           
 Weapons and Warfare.  Furthermore, a major part of his research was           
 on electromagnetic fields and the affects on living systems.  He              
 has also held FCC licenses in radio, telephone, radar and microwave           
 fields.  He gave up government sponsored research in 1968 and has             
 worked primarily as an independent researcher since.  He called on            
 Dr. Flanagan.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1125                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. PATRICK FLANAGAN said that ne of the things that they are                 
 concerned about that Mr. Heckschir didn't address and that is the             
 fact that one of the purposes of HAARP is to develop an ELS                   
 capability for transmitting high energy ELS waves from .001 hertz             
 to 40 kilohertz.  Since the original environmental impact statement           
 in 1991 a lot of current research is showing that ELS signals could           
 have profound affects on the living organisms such as the                     
 curcandian rhythm - the biological clock of all living organisms.             
 He said the (indisc.) Institute in Germany has done quite a bit of            
 work on this showing that very energy levels, in fact energy levels           
 that are 1/10 (indisc.) Europe's magnetic filed can have profound             
 effects on this rhythm.  Others might say that ELS fields from                
 HAARP are not harmful, but remember our government once sprayed DDT           
 on school children while they were eating lunch and said that this            
 was not harmful.  He said there was a very real concern of the                
 possible affects of ELS.  One of the most notable research on ELS             
 was done by Dr. Ludafist (Sp?) at the Catholic University showed              
 that coherent energy fields can have effects on DNA creating                  
 abnormal growth, for example, in chicken egg development and                  
 possibly in humans.  He reiterated these areas were of concern to             
 him and need to be addressed.                                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Mark Farmer.                        
                                                                               
 Number 1256                                                                   
                                                                               
 MARK FARMER, Investigative Reporter, thanked the committee members            
 for this meeting today.  He said he was a 14 year Alaskan resident            
 and is an investigative reporter.  He came to Alaska with the                 
 United States Coast Guard of which he retired from in 1987, due to            
 service related cancer.  He has worked as a reporter and producer             
 for various television and radio stations around the state.  He               
 noted he was Governor Hickel's audio/visual director.  For the last           
 five years he had been pursuing stories basically uncovering secret           
 weapons programs and sometimes the paranormal.  He said he has been           
 following HAARP for three years.  He called it a strange story.  He           
 said one would hear many strange conspiracy tales about the machine           
 itself.  Mr. Farmer referred to the editors of his Popular Science            
 article and said they did state that in 1993 the FAA was warning              
 people to stay away from HAARP.  That's not true.  You will hear              
 stories that the United Nations was running the program to contact            
 aliens to come and get "our" guns; that it was being used to                  
 control our brains; and that it was being used to deflect salmon.             
 He said all these are untrue and are stories that come from not               
 having the basis of knowledge in a very arcane subject which is               
 high energy radio physics.  He said the military gave the people in           
 the beginning the impression of a secret facility.  The military,             
 from a public affairs standpoint, did not come out earlier enough             
 to address the people's concerns manifesting the basis for the                
 various stories.  He said it is a complex of instruments being used           
 by the Geophysical Institute which will built at this facility                
 which was going to be an over the horizon radar sight originally.             
 It is actually a little bit south of the auroral zone where it                
 would be more effective.  So they built it out in the middle of               
 nowhere.  They didn't say much about it in the beginning and that             
 which also contributed to the suspicion.  He said he could not sell           
 the story in the early 1990's because it was such an incredulous              
 story to the people.  People ignored it for a long time until it              
 reached its critical mass in the last two years of which the                  
 concerns arised.  He said, "We don't know.  That's the problem, we            
 don't know about this project."  As it currently stands, it is only           
 1/10 of the size of what it would be according to the Ionospheric             
 Research Institute (IRI).  As Mr. Heckschir said, there is also               
 going to be a complex of incoherent scatter radars, imaging                   
 devices, the super computer at UAF is going to be tied in, and a              
 spun liquid metal mercury mirror was being put in.  He called this            
 "some cutting edge stuff," and Alaska is lucky to have it in some             
 respects.  He said he is generally in favor of the program, but the           
 oversight "stinks."  There is no supernational treaty that dealt              
 with the upper atmosphere or the ionosphere like there is for                 
 Antarctica or outer space, for example.  He said he doubts if the             
 power levels of HAARP are going to do anything really bad, but he             
 indicated he really doesn't know.  He said there was the potential            
 for bad effects due to the beam steering and pulsing capabilities,            
 for example, from instigations from secret organizations.                     
 Therefore, an oversight is needed other than the military.                    
 Furthermore, he does not believe that HAARP is a secret project,              
 but he does believe that there are secret initiatives.  He said Mr.           
 Heckschir is correct in saying that there is no classified                    
 documents pertaining to HAARP, but there are classified documents             
 for the STAR WARS related projects using ionospheric heaters back             
 in the 1980s of which HAARP was actually a spin-off from.                     
 Moreover, we still haven't categorized what is, "nearer space."               
 Part of HAARP is the space weather initiative to try and find out             
 and characterize the environment from the earth out into space,               
 mostly for ballistic missile defense and communication purposes.              
 He reiterated HAARP needs to be watched with active participation             
 from those that were concerned.  He explained Senator Ted Stevens             
 from Alaska is a big supporter of HAARP.  In conclusion, he said              
 the instrument would not go away or the stories.  We need to go               
 forward and maybe petition the United Nations.  Mr. Farmer said at            
 least we should approach some independent science councils in the             
 United States to find out if we can get a panel of people together            
 who are not beholding to the military or academia in these research           
 projects to oversee the power levels and the general usage that               
 HAARP is proposed for.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1642                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES announced a teleconference listener was interested in             
 the educational background of the testifiers.  She asked Mr. Farmer           
 if he had a college degree?  She would ask the remaining testifiers           
 at a later time.                                                              
                                                                               
 MR. FARMER replied, "no."  He has five years of college, but he               
 does not have a degree.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1675                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. RICHARD WILLIAMS, Physical Chemist, was next to address the               
 committee via teleconference.  He informed the committee members he           
 has a Ph.D in Physical Chemistry from Harvard.  He has worked for             
 about 30 years as an industrial scientist in the field of solid               
 state electronics.  He has done some work on the structure of                 
 clouds, water evaporation and other environmental problems.  He is            
 currently a consultant in physical chemistry at Princeton, New                
 Jersey.  He said he wants to alert the legislature to an activity             
 that is now going on in Alaska, that might become a global trap to            
 the atmosphere.  However, project internal documents indicate that            
 plans includes the eventual use of power level of up to 10 billion            
 watts.  He called this an enormous power level, more than 200 times           
 the total electric power used by the entire city of Juneau.  He               
 said there could be serious impacts in the atmosphere that might              
 result from energies of this magnitude.  The affects might include            
 drastic alterations of the thermal refractive scattering and                  
 emission charge of the atmosphere over a wide range of the                    
 electromagnetic spectrum.  Experiments at this power level would              
 produce large changes in the concentration of charged particles in            
 the ionosphere that would persist for some time and might even lead           
 to permanent changes.  He explained he is not believer in the                 
 conspiracies, but he does believe in unintended consequences of               
 innocent and beneficial human activities can cause serious changes            
 on a global scale.  He said he would like to introduce two examples           
 of activities that preceded the HAARP project.  Twice over the past           
 century we've unintentionally produced serious (indisc.) in the               
 atmosphere with affects that extend worldwide.  For many years                
 nobody recognized what was happening.  He cited the growing                   
 concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.  Over the last             
 half century, carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere as               
 increased by about 25 percent, mostly as a bi-product of the use of           
 fossil fuels.  We know that we've have already changed the crucial            
 carbon dioxide concentration.  What we don't know is how this will            
 affect the delicate balance of life on earth.                                 
                                                                               
 DR. WILLIAMS explained the second unintended change is in ozone               
 layer that shields us from harmful ultraviolet radiation.  Nobody             
 understood that we were making a (indisc.) bargain when we began to           
 enjoy the benefits of the various useful and seemingly harmless               
 freon refrigerants.  It was only much later that we came to                   
 understand that the freon molecules were making their way to the              
 upper atmosphere and producing permanent changes.  It remains to be           
 seen how seriously the loss of ozone will affect human life.  In              
 both citations there were unintended consequences and it's eventual           
 impacts will be felt worldwide.  He further wondered if there was             
 a way to judge what HAARP would do to the upper atmosphere.  He               
 thought perhaps there was a way.  He cited during the Cold War                
 explosions were intended to produce artificial radiation builds to            
 intercept intercontinental missiles by both the U.S. and the                  
 U.S.S.R.  The explosions resulted in global interruptions of radio            
 communications and profound disturbances to the upper atmosphere,             
 including greatly increased concentrations of charged particles.              
 Following one of these tests that took place in July, 1962, James             
 Van Allen used specially instrumentive satellite to monitor the               
 electron population in the upper atmosphere.  (Indisc.) large                 
 initial increase in electron concentration followed by a slow                 
 decrease, with significant disturbances still observable a year               
 after the explosion.  This was just one injection of (indisc.).  To           
 develop a military system, such as the one proposed by HAARP to               
 communicate with submerged submarines, takes many tests.  As an               
 example, for test purposes over the years the nuclear armed                   
 countries have exploded more than 2,000 nuclear weapons, mostly               
 near the earth's surface an underground.  The nuclear armed                   
 countries had exploded more than 2,000 nuclear weapons violently              
 disturbing the properties of the atmosphere.  He wondered about the           
 possible effects for Alaskans.  The upper atmosphere had unique               
 properties over polar regions, such as showers of charged particles           
 that veer towards the poles where they enter the atmosphere and               
 produce the northern lights.  He further cited the changes in the             
 ozone layer which have been most extreme over Antarctica and the              
 Far North.  Therefore, any future changes in the atmosphere might             
 well be noticed first in the Polar regions.  He said the Alaska may           
 get the first warning of coming changes.  Alaska's motto of "North            
 to the Future" will take on an unintended and ironic new meaning.             
                                                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next testifier, Dr. Syun-Ichi Akasofu of            
 the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.                                          
                                                                               
 DR. SYUN-ICHI AKASOFU, Director, University of Alaska, Fairbanks,             
 Geophysical Institute, said he is a scientist by profession                   
 specializing in the auroral.  He said he has a Ph.D. in geophysics            
 from the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.  He said he is a                    
 scientist and not a science fiction writer.  Therefore, he is not             
 qualified to discuss science fiction.  He said he understands the             
 difference between science and science fiction.  In science, we               
 make our observations and (indisc.) and then we try to understand             
 the (indisc.) phenomena on the basis of a fundamental (indisc.).              
 On the other hand, science fiction is a form of (indisc.)                     
 entertainment in which (indisc.).  He said the book titled, "Angels           
 Don't Play this HAARP," was exaggerated one million times from                
 scientific reality.  He considers that exaggeration to be in the              
 category of a fantasy.  For example, the power of HAARP generated             
 was perhaps (indisc.).  On the other hand, the auroral was caused             
 by a million times more powerful natural generator, at least 1                
 million megawatts, but dramatized at 100 million megawatts.                   
 Scientists had claimed that HAARP can do far more than what the               
 auroral can do which is an exaggeration of the scientific reality.            
 He reiterated science fiction is a mix of reality and fantasy and             
 should remain as such.  Dr. Akasofu further stated that scientists            
 from all over the world had studied the auroral processes.  The               
 National Science Foundation was a cosponsor of HAARP.                         
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Dr. William Gordon, Rice            
 University.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2175                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. WILLIAM GORDON, Rice University, said it was a pleasure to be             
 before the House State Affairs Committee today.  He said he has a             
 Ph.D from Cornell University in electrical engineering.  He is a              
 licensed engineer and specializes in radio communications.  He is             
 a member of the National (indisc.) Academy of Engineering and the             
 National Academy of Science.  He is a fellow of the Institute of              
 Alaska of Electronic Engineers, and is an honorary President of the           
 International Union of Radio Science.  He has worked with                     
 observatories similar to HAARP for more than 40 years.  He said               
 there must be something okay with radio waves because he has                  
 survived for almost 44 years.  He said other facilities similar to            
 HAARP exist and have been operating since the early 1970s.  None of           
 the facilities have produced any harmful effects on either people             
 or the ecology.  HAARP and similar facilities operate in the hidden           
 properties of the upper atmosphere and applied the results for the            
 benefit of the public.  There are two panels that he had recently             
 served on.  One produced a book titles, "Health Effects of Lower              
 Frequency Electric and Magnetic Fields."  He suggested Dr. Begich             
 and Dr. Flanagan read the book because it concludes that there are            
 no convincing evidence to support the contention that exposures to            
 extremely low frequency electric and magnetic fields generated a              
 monitorable health hazard.  He cited that in Michigan and                     
 Wisconsin, ELS transmitters were put in by the Navy and do                    
 communicate with submarines.  The Navy has sponsored a series of              
 studies to look at the ecology effects of the ELS.  The results               
 were not available yet.  The committee had not reported yet.  Other           
 material, however, indicates that the operation of an ELS facility            
 did not produce any ecological effects including single cell                  
 tissue, flora, and insects, for example.  Furthermore, the evidence           
 in literature for ELS on human health indicates that the effects              
 were not deleterious.  Moreover, radiation was used for the healing           
 of bones on human beings and the biological clock - the pineal                
 gland in the brain.  He cited melatonin, available at the local               
 drug store, helped reset the biological clock.  There was also                
 evidence that the pineal gland may also secrete melatonin under               
 (indisc.) radiation.  Furthermore, this work was going on all over            
 the world.  He cited the Arctic experienced serious problems with             
 communications systems.  Therefore, alternatives are needed and               
 people to study the upper atmosphere to determine what                        
 possibilities there are for alternate means of communication so               
 that we're not blacked out when there are serious (indisc.).  The             
 state should welcome the HAARP project to help solve these serious            
 problems.                                                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Edward Kennedy, Naval               
 Research Laboratory.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 2478                                                                   
                                                                               
 EDWARD KENNEDY, Naval Research Laboratory, testified via                      
 teleconference.                                                               
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-44, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 0010                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KENNEDY said his official capacity with respect to this project           
 is that he the contracting officer's technical representative which           
 means he is basically the technical interface between the                     
 contractor and the government.  He said he did not have a prepared            
 statement for today.  He was asked primarily to answer any                    
 questions.  He said in listening to the other speakers, it seems to           
 him there is a real misunderstanding among some of the speakers,              
 particularly between Dr. Flanagan and Dr. Williams with respect to            
 the absolute level of the fields involved in some of the claims               
 that have been made.  For example, Dr. Flanagan referenced a field            
 strength that was 1/10 of the earth's magnetic field.  Mr. Kennedy            
 said this is an enormous field compared to the kind of field that             
 HAARP can produce.  In order to discuss this issue intelligently we           
 need to get into some technical discussions.  He said he is                   
 concerned that this might be a difficult matter to talk about, but            
 he thinks it is necessary to do.  It would shed some real light               
 about what the tremendous difference of what's being claimed and              
 what the what HAARP facility can do.                                          
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked, "I have one question to begin with, Mr.                    
 Heckschir one of the concerns that I've heard from the public, in             
 the state, that is so distressing is that many of these people have           
 read the patent by Mr. Eastland that was made available to me at              
 the time that -- in 1992, when HAARP was trying to establish itself           
 and was considering the Clear Air Force Base site, which was within           
 my district.  We've had conversations, you and I, about this issue            
 and I'd like to have you explain to the people here your responses            
 to the fact that you state, "There is no connection between Mr.               
 Eastland's patent and what's happening at HAARP near Gakona."                 
                                                                               
 Number 0112                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR replied there was no connection between Mr.                     
 Eastland's patent and the HAARP facility.  There is a massive                 
 difference in the amount of power that Mr. Eastland's patents would           
 require compared with HAARP.  The comparison is ridiculous.  The              
 HAARP, at most, has the power from four diesel locomotives and that           
 was the total prime power that HAARP will ever have in its final              
 design.  The Eastland patents require thousands of times more basic           
 power.  He agreed with the concerns of Dr. Williams regarding                 
 massive power injections into the ionosphere.  The Eastland patents           
 requires thousands of times more power than HAARP has.  Such a                
 massive scale could never get through the regulatory agencies.  Any           
 change in the environmental impact statement that has been approved           
 would require another public hearing.  The whole process would have           
 to be opened up again if we wanted to build Mr. Eastland's device.            
 He said, "It's not what were doing."  It is unfortunate that the              
 comparison is being made because there is real no comparison                  
 between the two.  The suggestion that HAARP is any way even close             
 to what Mr. Eastland had in mind is preposterous.  Furthermore,               
 such a devise of Mr. Eastland's would be rejected immediately with            
 the regulatory oversight in place today.  The amount of federal and           
 state oversight is monumental.  He said he believes they do a                 
 thorough and great job.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0226                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN said, "My concern is that if we are                  
 involved in this sort of research, are we at the edge of Pandora's            
 box where we would have regulatory oversight from the United States           
 standpoint, but that as we've known from time memorial - whatever             
 we develop other countries will soon have.  And would there be the            
 same sort of guarantee that some sort of oversight would be                   
 available there, because while this may start off in its most                 
 simplistic form and very very safe if it's able to be controlled as           
 we've been led to believe, could that then be used and not                    
 necessarily in such a magnitude that we would be talking about the            
 entire ionosphere, but controlled to pinpointed areas where you               
 could actually increase the amount of energy and possible                     
 detrimental effects over selected areas?"                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Kennedy to respond to Representative Green's            
 concerns.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0272                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KENNEDY said that was a difficult question to answer.  We in              
 the United States have no control over what other countries do.               
 However, in the United States in order to build the kind of                   
 facility that Mr. Heckschir was talking about, it would                       
 approximately double the national debt to build something like that           
 just in the cost of equipment and manpower.  As Mr. Heckschir said            
 it would be rejected by the regulatory agencies solely on the basis           
 of cost.  That same concept applies to other countries as well.               
                                                                               
 Number 0311                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES wondered if Mr. Kennedy was responding to the                     
 Eastland's device or to the HAARP facility.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 0320                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KENNEDY replied he was talking about trying to develop                    
 something of the magnitude of Eastland's devise.  He said it is               
 strictly science fiction to think about building something that               
 large considering the cost.                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES commented Representative Green was more concerned about           
 the existing HAARP facility.  She asked if there is any information           
 from that which could have any implications from other nations                
 picking up and doing something that was more extensive than this              
 and causing us any damage.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0344                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR replied these facilities already exist in other                 
 countries.  He cited one in Northern Norway and several in Russia.            
 These have operated for many years.  He said there is absolutely no           
 deleterious effects indicated from any of the operations that have            
 been done for the last 30 to 40 years.  He reiterated he doesn't              
 believe it is a problem.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0379                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Heckschir if the facilities in Norway and               
 Russia are comparable to HAARP or are they more powerful.                     
                                                                               
 Number 0387                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR replied the facility in Norway was comparable to                
 HAARP, the antenna array is very much like what HAARP will have.              
 The power capability somewhat less, two to three times less than              
 what HAARP will eventually have.  The HAARP facility in Alaskahas             
 the same power capability as the one in Northern Norway, it just              
 did not have the antenna array to construct a narrow beam.                    
                                                                               
 Number 0418                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. BEGICH commented that in terms of the power levels and energy             
 levels that are transmitted on the ground, the significant factor             
 here is the amount of energy delivered into the ionosphere which is           
 the focusing capability of the HAARP project, which distinguishes             
 it from other projects operating around the world.  Furthermore,              
 the primary invention of Bernard Eastland wasn't the size, but the            
 focusing ability - the ability to focus radio frequency energy into           
 that narrow beam to disturb the ionosphere for the unique affects             
 they are trying gain from this project.  He said in terms of other            
 projects of a similar nature, there was one that was recorded April           
 2, Istanbul, which is a publication of Soviet Union.  And it was on           
 a FBI strategic defense initiate proposal from the Soviets - former           
 Soviet Union to the United States to develop phaser ray antenna               
 systems.  When you read the article it is exactly what HAARP is for           
 a number of weapons affects.  And what is happening here and what             
 has been happening since the inception of this project is to paint            
 HAARP as Eastland in the sense of size would certainly be wrong,              
 but in sense of application what it does uniquely in focusing                 
 energy is absolutely correct.  And what the gentleman from Rice               
 University was saying regarding ELS and what's also interesting               
 about all the people presenting on their side where the biological            
 scientists?  Where are those people with backgrounds in                       
 electrophysiology?  Where are those people that have that requisite           
 background to make the kinds of statements that this can operate              
 safety?  And why aren't they in front of this committee today.  Our           
 experts, you know, have looked at these effects.  (Indisc.) put               
 Patrick back on-line, I think he'd like to respond to a couple of             
 things that have been said.  In terms of science fiction, we didn't           
 write science fiction.  We wrote the facts as the facts unveiled              
 itself and what we've seen missing in all this from the military is           
 a clear description of what those facts might be.  Moreover, this             
 is not the first time that the military has proposed safe                     
 technologies for Alaska that today, we look back on it and say                
 `Aren't safe at all.'  And we think that this particular system               
 needs the kind of oversight that involves biologists that are                 
 independent of military establishment, that are independent of the            
 academic community that draws money from the military                         
 establishment, that are truly independent.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0590                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. BEGICH continued, "In terms of the question by Representative             
 Green regarding where the global implications, certainly if                   
 oversight is going to take place in Alaska, then oversight should             
 extend beyond the boundaries of the United States and we've been in           
 touch with members of the European Parliament and others who are              
 reviewing this project, what we put together on it and matching off           
 several scientists in Europe against our scientists here to get to            
 a little cleaner understanding before they begin moving forward               
 because they're as equally concerned as we are that disturbing the            
 ionosphere is not the tool of the United States.  It's a global               
 issue.  It's an issue that all of us are concerned about.  Well the           
 research intention of the University of Alaska I'm sure are founded           
 on absolute clear idea of what mechanics want to do with the                  
 ionosphere, but this isn't a place for just mechanics and                     
 engineers.  Biological scientists must be involved with a requisite           
 backgrounds so this can be assessed in terms of a true safety                 
 level.  Comparing this to other facilities without including the              
 issue of focusing energy and creating secondary energies from the             
 ionosphere is ludicrous, you can't do that.  And I'd like to give             
 Patrick a chance to expand on some of this as well."                          
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES questioned Dr. Begich's field of degree.                          
                                                                               
 DR. BEGICH said he has a doctorate in complimentary medicines from            
 the (Indisc.) International University for Complimentary Medicine.            
 He said he has been primarily doing research work.  He noted Dr.              
 Flanagan has been one of their key people.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 608                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. FLANAGAN explained there are many pros and cons regarding ELS             
 effects on the body.  He said there are some viewing specs that               
 promote healing from certain energies being applied to the bone,              
 but that doesn't apply to what the committee is talking about.                
 There are literally thousands of papers written by reputable                  
 scientists on negative effects in ELS fields on the living system.            
 The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) released a report in 1991           
 linking electromagnetic fields to leukemia and brain cancer in                
 children.  There is a paper that was just published in 1996 by the            
 Catholic University titled,  "Super Imposing Spacely Coherent                 
 Electromagnetic Noise Inhibits Field Induced Abnormalities in                 
 Developing Chick Embryos."  Basically, what this paper says is that           
 very low energy ELS fields developed abnormalities in developing              
 chick embryos and that there was a test to show the nature of this            
 field and how it could be counter acted.  Fortunately, it can be              
 counter acted by applying a white noise field.  There is a                    
 tremendous amount of background.  ELS fields are not as harmless as           
 is being implied.  He said he believes it needs to be looked into.            
 Dr. Flanagan explained there is a possibility of something called             
 "major amplification of a HAARP energy."  For example, if HAARP is            
 applying 3,600 kilowatts to the ionosphere, there is a possibility            
 of something called major amplification of that energy by charged             
 particles in the ionosphere in which you'll get more energy out.              
 That is energy is being powered by the energy from the sun.  These            
 charged particles in the ionosphere can be caused to maze and                 
 develop actually more energy than HAARP is putting in.  He said               
 these are things that need to be addressed.  Mr. Flanagan said he             
 doesn't think this electromagnetic question of ELS safety has been            
 answered at all.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 700                                                                    
 CHAIR JAMES said she likes to tell people that her scientific                 
 knowledge is based on the eighth grade general science.  She noted            
 she doesn't have any degrees.  In talking about this project we're            
 talking about these frequencies - radio waves and then focusing               
 them.  She it reminds her of when she used to take a magnifying               
 glass and use the sun to burn holes in something when the sun                 
 didn't feel that hot in the first place.  Chair James said she has            
 a question regarding the comparison to the facility in Norway and             
 the facility we have in Alaska.  It was indicated that the                    
 difference was in the ability to focus that power into a narrow               
 focus.  She asked Mr. Heckschir to respond to that.  She said her             
 question is, "If, as an example, that focus could be more defined             
 and more driven, could we then have much more affect than what                
 you're having even with the existing diesel powers that you have?"            
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR said he thinks Mr. Kennedy probably has a good handle           
 on that subject.  He asked Mr. Kennedy if he could address that               
 issue.                                                                        
                                                                               
 DR. GORDON indicated he would like to comment on that subject.                
                                                                               
 Number 830                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. HECKSCHIR said he would prefer that Mr. Kennedy address the               
 issue of focusing the antennas.                                               
                                                                               
 MR. KENNEDY said with respect to the ability to focus on antenna,             
 he has worked in the area of antennas his whole career.  He noted             
 he got his masters degree on a thesis of having to do with                    
 antennas.  He said Mr. Begich has claimed that the HAARP ray can              
 focus to a point which has made numerous (indisc.).  That is                  
 completely false.  There is no such capability with HAARP.  In                
 order to produce anything near the kind of focusing capability that           
 Dr. Begich claims would require a facility something in the order             
 of the size that Mr. Eastland had originally envisioned in his past           
 - something in the order of (indisc.).  HAARP obeys the same                  
 continental rules as all other large antenna systems.  The energy             
 disburses as you get farther away from the antenna.  It does not              
 come to a point.  Comparing it with a magnifying glass is really              
 misleading and it is the utmost irresponsibility to make that kind            
 of claim.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 893                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. GORDON referred to the focusing question and said it isn't                
 particularly relevant here because of what Mr. Kennedy has just               
 told the committee.  He said the committee should know that this              
 system in Russia and elsewhere have phaser rays and have the same             
 difficulty.  They're able to sweep a beam by phasing, but they're             
 not able to bring the focus to anything (indisc.).  He said his               
 second point has do with the people who are involved in the health            
 studies and the ecological studies.  Those people include all the             
 branches of life sciences, they include medicine, reproduction and            
 cell biologists, (indisc.), engineers and physicists.  Those                  
 studies were a very balanced (indisc.) done by a broad spectrum of            
 people and the publications that have come out of them are                    
 reliable.  He continued to discuss publications.  [Note:  Most of             
 this testimony was indiscernible.]  Mr. Gordon said when you find             
 an article that says, "Chick eggs are affected by some level of               
 radiation," you can find two other articles which say, "I tried to            
 do the same thing and couldn't."  He indicated the experiments                
 cannot be replicated, they can't be duplicated.  People have tried.           
 The literature is full of flames.  He said he has found that                  
 (indisc.) on chick eggs and some reporter is likely to grab that              
 and make a headline, but the reporter ignores the fact that five              
 other people have tried the same thing and got different results.             
                                                                               
 Number 978                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. AKASOFU was next to comment.  [Note:  A lot of this testimony             
 was indiscernible.]  He said, "Thank you.  (Indisc.) that Dr.                 
 Begich (indisc.) of what he dreams is the magnitude of a media                
 intense exaggeration.  Not only say that the focusing is an issue.            
 So let me tell you I think the (indisc.) focusing, he got it some             
 place, is very misleading and I think you know exactly what this              
 means.  I think you're mislead and that's why you made the                    
 statement of magnifying glasses.  No, that's not way it goes, in              
 fact the (indisc.) recorder systems in the seismic terms, the                 
 amount of energy going into the ionosphere is so little that you              
 cannot even see any light coming from the ionosphere.  One of the             
 most sensitive instruments in the world can't see it.  On the other           
 hand, look at the auroral, you can see it easily by naked eyes.  So           
 this is a difference.  For instance, focusing means that the                  
 ionosphere will (indisc.).  So I think the (indisc.) focusing is              
 being used in a misleading way and I agree with Dr. William Gordon            
 on that.  And also that I think we are (indisc.), these (indisc.)             
 by the National Science Foundation.  It's not just a (indisc.)                
 project.  Many of our (indisc.) reported by the National Science              
 Foundation.  When I was listening to the people, Dr. Williams said            
 Princeton, but it is not Princeton University.  And what I gather             
 from Dr. Begich and Dr. Flanagan, Dr. Williams, you're scientists             
 but (indisc.) specializing (indisc.) like Dr. Gordon.  You are as             
 ignorant as anybody else.  But using those (indisc.) scientific               
 terms like `megawatts' or `the focusing,' you're misleading the               
 citizens.  Thank you very much."                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1142                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GENE KUBINA indicated he has a couple of lower level           
 degrees, but he is normally a sixth grade teacher.  He said his               
 thought process is more geared to a 12-year old.  He said he isn't            
 sure what the goal is of what they are trying to get.                         
 Representative Kubina said he represents the people in this area              
 who have a great concern about their health and what the effects              
 are.  He said it seems to him that there needs to be a process or             
 a mechanism set up similar to what we have in the RCAC program with           
 the oil industry in transporting oil through the Sound so that the            
 people in the community have someone that they can go to and answer           
 questions and get questions answered for them about what is going             
 on.  Dr. Begich talked about there being no biologists involved.              
 Dr. Heckschir talked about the review committees that they're going           
 through.  He asked if there is a way to set up a mechanism where              
 there are people involved that do not have a financial interest in            
 it, but yet have the training and ability to understand what is               
 actually happening, so that people can go to them to talk about               
 this.  They can have meetings so they don't feel like this is                 
 someone that's just trying to get their grant project through.  He            
 asked if both sides could comment.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1263                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. HECKSCHIR said he agrees with much of what Representative                 
 Kubina has suggested.  He said much of that mechanism is already in           
 place.  There is the Radio Frequency Interference Resolution                  
 Committee which includes local citizens, representatives of many              
 agencies and representatives from the ham community.  This                    
 committee meets to resolve any radio frequency interference issues            
 that might arise.  Dr. Heckschir referred to their outreach program           
 and said he would extend an offer to have Representative Kubina and           
 others to work with them to improve communication with the                    
 community.  He said he would welcome input from the committee                 
 members to see how they can better relate to the community.                   
 Perhaps the public affairs officer at Kirtland would like to                  
 comment.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1346                                                                   
                                                                               
 RICH GARCIA, Public Affairs Officer, Kirtland Air Force Base,                 
 testified via teleconference.  He said they got on board a little             
 bit late to get a much word out as they want to get out regarding             
 HAARP.  He explained it is their desire is to try and restore                 
 credit to anyone that has questions about HAARP.  Mr. Garcia said             
 Dr. Heckschir had an open house.  He said they have responded every           
 new media representative that has contacted them.  Whenever HAARP             
 is on-line and is about to operate, they try to put out news                  
 releases before the fact so that people would know when it is                 
 operating.  They plan to have another open house in the future.  He           
 said they are very receptive to opinion and ideas that the public             
 has as to how they might get the word out to more people.                     
                                                                               
 Number 1400                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. HECKSCHIR said he would further elaborate on the regulatory               
 oversight.  There are many independent reviews taking place at all            
 levels - federal, state and private.  At the federal level, the               
 National Telecommunications and Information Administration is being           
 (indisc.).  Many agencies sit on that board including the FAA, the            
 Department of Health and Welfare, Agriculture and the FCC.  In                
 Alaska, independent reviews are conducted by the FAA in the fields            
 of aviation control and safety.  The Corps of Engineers are                   
 involved in impacts on water quality and flatland preservation.               
 The National Park Service sits on their committee worrying about              
 interference to animal trapping and (indisc.) communications.  He             
 said they do bird monitoring under the auspices of Fish and                   
 Wildlife.  The U.S. Coast Guard sits on the panel in regards to               
 (indisc.) communication and rescue and navigation aids.  The Bureau           
 of Land Management is also involved in how the land is used. The              
 Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is also involved.  The EPA is           
 looking for continuing adherence to standards they have said they             
 will provide.  Mr. Heckschir explained all these agencies provide             
 continuing independent oversight of construction and operations.              
 At the state level, the Alaska Department of Environmental                    
 Conservation monitors water quality, natural resources and mining             
 plans.  He noted they have a lot gravel in mind for the antenna               
 fields.  Mr. Heckschir noted they also monitor radio frequency                
 interference (RFI) and radio frequency radiation.  The state                  
 (indisc.) preservation office that monitors any archaeological                
 resources that they come across during the construction of the                
 facility.  The Alaska Department of Fish and Game looks after the             
 RFI as well as impacts to wildlife.  They all independently provide           
 regulatory oversight.                                                         
                                                                               
 Mr. HECKSCHIR said as far as private and commercial concerns,                 
 they're represented on the committee by the ARRL, the Ham                     
 Organization.  The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association looks               
 after aircraft safety.  The Aleyska pipeline are worried about                
 radio controls of the pipeline and their communications.  Alascom             
 worries about telephone interference.  There is also a private                
 individual who represents the local communities of Gakona and                 
 Glennallen.  All these organization provides active independent               
 review of all aspects of the HAARP operation.                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES indicated the members of the committee they are excused           
 as they have to go on the House floor.  She thanked everyone for              
 participating and noted the meeting would continue for another half           
 an hour and would be monitored by her staff.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1616                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN said he is concerned because a wide                 
 variety of people in his district who have an education and                   
 background that are really concerned with this.  Given the                    
 government's past track record with experimenting on different                
 civilian populations with various, for example radiation in the               
 past, and various other experiments.  He said he thinks people are            
 operating in a vacuum and he believes fear is basically the                   
 unknown.  When people don't about something, they're afraid of it.            
 There is obviously and number of intelligent and educated people              
 that have a difference of opinion on the subject.  He said he                 
 thinks that people that don't have association with the Defense               
 Department or some kind of economic interests need to analyze this.           
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES announced Walt Wilcox will continue with the rest of              
 the hearing.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1750                                                                   
                                                                               
 WALT WILCOX, Legislative Assistant to Representative Jeanette                 
 James, asked the people who had testified to state the spelling of            
 their names and their addresses.                                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR GEORGIANNA LINCOLN explained she had an opportunity to go             
 Glennallen in March.  She attended a community meeting that was               
 being held on the HAARP project.  She indicated there was large               
 turnout of people.  Senator Lincoln said she was left with a sense            
 of people not understanding what this facility is.  She said she              
 also visited the HAARP site the previous summer and felt that it              
 wasn't as scary as what people had discussed.  She said, "But I'm             
 not a scientist.  I don't know what the instruments are going to do           
 and especially if there is any potential harm to the environment or           
 individuals.  So I really appreciate the number of folks that have            
 really come out in and around the area expressing their concerns              
 and wanting to know especially, I think, that we have as the state            
 of Alaska, in looking out for the welfare of our people here in               
 Alaska that we have some kind of oversight.  And I still haven't              
 heard what we, as the state of Alaska, have as an oversight.  I've            
 heard that we're participating in a number of committees, but I               
 think that we need to look at, as a state, of having an independent           
 oversight overview committee.  And Representative Kubina and I are            
 certainly going to work toward that end.  My question is that in              
 reading one of the documents that was handed out here today, inside           
 one of the packets it said that the criteria that was used for the            
 site selection was `It must be away from a densely settled area.'             
 And if the HAARP project is environmentally sound that if it has a            
 no harm to individuals or animals, then why was it necessary that             
 the site be away from populated areas?  And that would be my                  
 question to one of the individuals on-line."                                  
                                                                               
 Number 2477                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR explained, "The reason for the site being away from             
 populated areas is that the effects that HAARP can produce...."               
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-45, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 0001                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR continued, "....to a lot of activity - human activity           
 which requires generators, lights, all the activities associated              
 with towns and cities (indisc.) fields, all these things they                 
 provide a background information or a background level of noise               
 which is high, and you want to make sure that get into an area                
 where those background noise levels are low so that you have a                
 chance of operating your sensitive instruments in a most sensitive            
 manner.  Light pollution is a prime example.  One of the main                 
 studies will be the effect of the aurora and you can see the aurora           
 in a dark location away from cities.  That's the reason why it                
 needs to be away from populated areas."                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0118                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BEGICH referred to the question asked by Representative Kubina            
 regarding monitoring.  He said the fact again remains the lack of             
 biological scientists on these teams and the kinds of scientists              
 that have the requisite background.  He said the committee heard              
 earlier from Dr. Gordon and Dr. Flanagan about the chick/embryo               
 study.  One of those studies was actually commissioned by the                 
 United States Office of Naval Research which (indisc.) this                   
 project.  There were six independent studies, five of which                   
 confirmed that ELS did have an effect on chick embryos and one that           
 did not.  He said the characterization of a lot those studies is              
 not properly placed in front of the committee.  Moreover, the issue           
 of the openness of this project which does relate to oversight                
 again, Mr. Heckschir has said that it is a totally open project as            
 has everyone else.  Yet there is a document, "PLGP Technical                  
 Memorandum 195," which has not been released to the public.  It is            
 613 pages long and describes the power levels that are in dispute             
 on this system.  Mr. Begich said, "In terms of what Dr. Akasofu was           
 saying suggesting that I backed off on my position on power -                 
 that's incorrect.  I believe that the current state of power                  
 developed at the site is as they characterized it.  That is the               
 direction of the project that's laid out in technical memorandum              
 195, which shows a power level desire many many times more than               
 what is currently there and actually a desired energy level not               
 required for this particular transmitter at this particular time.             
 The desired level by the members present at that meeting that put             
 this document together asking that maybe they'd go up to a billion            
 watts of (indisc.) radio power.  That's in their document.  When              
 John Heckschir was asked about this document on Canadian                      
 Broadcasting Television, and we have a segment that we can make               
 available to you, he denied that it exists and yet he's the program           
 manager, he's on the distribution list at the end of that                     
 memorandum and he's also listed in attendance (indisc.) put the               
 memorandum together.  And if it's such an open project, then why is           
 he denying knowledge of this memorandum now and why are they                  
 disputing where they want to go with the power level?  What they're           
 really talking about is where we are today which, you know, we                
 would agree it's at a low level, but where it's going as all                  
 military projects go, it's progressive and it's (indisc.) next                
 stage of development.  Oversight needs to be independent, RDEC                
 could do it if they mixed in some of the experts that are out there           
 in radio frequency and electromagnetic energies effect on human               
 physiology.  And that should happen.  I think this state can do               
 that.  And if it is such an open project, there should be an                  
 absolute enthusiasm from the other side of this issue to encourage            
 that, to put these issues aside because I think that is where we're           
 at.  We want to see these issues brought up in the proper forum,              
 raised with the proper kind of technicians debating these issues so           
 that in the end we can all feel comfortable because there are some            
 interesting military applications here that might be (indisc.) to             
 have in the state of Alaska, particularly given Senator Steven's              
 recent statements that Alaska and Hawaii are excluded from the                
 defense shield.  And now we have a research project in Alaska, it             
 might us a defense shield.  It might violate some international               
 agreements at this time, but you know we're gonna get a shield                
 here.  Maybe it makes sense, maybe it doesn't, but it has to be               
 reviewed from a biological standpoint - not just a mechanical                 
 standpoint and that's what we really need to see the state get                
 involved in."                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0417                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. FLANAGAN said the power levels discussed by Dr. Heckschir                 
 aren't consistent with the statement he made on the television show           
 (indisc.) when he was interviewed when he said that the HAARP                 
 system can actually punch holes through the ionosphere and that               
 these holes would heal shortly after a HAARP system was turned off.           
 He said he would like a comment from Dr. Heckschir.                           
                                                                               
 DR. HECKSCHIR referred to technical memorandum 195 and said, "The             
 segment that everybody has seen on the Canadian Broadcasting                  
 Corporation program was taken out context.  It was cut and edited             
 to make me look bad, I believe.  The interviewer never gave me the            
 title of the technical memorandum and I don't recognize documents             
 by their technical memorandum number.  The title of it is                     
 `Presentations from the HAARP Workshop on Ionosphere and Heating              
 Diagnostics.'  This was a workshop that was proposed for deciding             
 on basic parameters on what the HAARP diagnostics are going to be,            
 not the machine - not the (indisc.) we see ionosphere and research            
 instrument.  The memorandum was assembled for the convenience only            
 of the attendees.  They consisted of unedited view graphs, some of            
 which were made by a green pencil on a spot as the speaker was                
 lecturing, as well as other materials that each participant used to           
 promote their thoughts and ideas.  None of this material was                  
 submitted for peer review, which is an essential part of actually             
 a publishing something.  Therefore, the statement in the (indisc.)            
 of this technical memorandum 195, which is required by (indisc.)              
 regulations, (indisc.) the the technical memorandum from attacking            
 the report which is the document reviewed for publication.  Any of            
 the information in that document is not an indication of                      
 necessarily or of what is intended.  It is simply a collection of             
 U graphs that shows what the diagnostics are supposed to be.  The             
 information on individual U graphs and what is finally developed in           
 the HAARP design are not tolerated.  The (indisc.) in there are               
 obviously not desired levels.  So to imply that technical                     
 memorandum 195 is what the HAARP program is going toward is just              
 not right."                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 0640                                                                   
                                                                               
 DR. AKASOFU said, "I just want to say that the (indisc.) cuts as a            
 (indisc.) expression some people.  It's the only way to enlarge the           
 HAARP sight hundreds or thousand times.  So you (indisc.).  I told            
 you that the HAARP sight, although they expect that eventually they           
 might go to 1,000 megawatts, megawatts, but they might need only              
 about a few megawatts.  The operation generator power, (indisc.)              
 it's 300 megawatts.  So if we have to worry about a (indisc.)                 
 stuff, I (indisc.) doing 100,000 times more damage to environment             
 on a whole today.  So I hope that you understand that.  Also let me           
 say - I'm not going to say anymore - that the Geophysical                     
 Institute, University of Alaska, Fairbanks, is that Alaska one of             
 (indisc.) corners (indisc.) institute of the state of Alaska.  I              
 (indisc.) to the state of Alaska.  Let me say that.  Thank you.               
                                                                               
 Number 0737                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. FARMER commented, "Dr. Akasofu and other refer to some of the             
 things mentioned in both Nick Begich's book and my stories in Jane            
 Defense Weekly, which is the most prestigious defense magazine in             
 the world, and Popular Science, which can hold his own.  The Star             
 Wars program that through money around quite liberally in the `80s,           
 I don't think necessarily adhere to science fiction, Dr.  The                 
 things that I got out of Heckschir's documents, which are patents             
 which the government did not think was science fiction do the the             
 fact that they gave him a lot of money and kept several of them               
 secrete until recently, were right out of those patented documents.           
 The other applications of HAARP that are possible, and I always say           
 `possible,' including earth penetrating tomography and the creation           
 of lenses and mirrors - those are all in your documents.  That is             
 not science fiction in that respect.  Some of the other ones, mind            
 control, weather control, I grant you that they're pretty far                 
 fetched.  And people should realize that the scale of what Eastland           
 was talking about was a machine 160 square miles.  It was tapping             
 natural gas directly out of the gas fields running huge generators.           
 Dr. Akasofu and others will say `It's only megawatts.'  Well                  
 effective radiated power - the actual amount of power that goes               
 into the ionosphere is in gigawatts.  You take the amount of power            
 out of the generators.  There is a formula that brings you a                  
 frequency and your antenna size that gives you effective radiated             
 power which turns into billions of watts.  So I don't think we've             
 made any sort of real progress on bringing the sides together, but            
 certainly there is a countervailing citadels of expertise here that           
 needs to be -- well we need to talk more for one thing.  People               
 need to involve themselves more and I think as more people educate            
 themselves and figure out what is trying to go on here that they              
 will probably come over to the government side in some respects.              
 It's bringing jobs.  It's making sure that Alaska is one of the               
 preeminent scientific facilities in the world and, generally, it's            
 probably a pretty good thing.  I think this meeting was a good                
 start.  And Mr. Heckschir - one question - you just got done doing            
 a ELF campaign with HAARP this month.  How did that go?"                      
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR responded, "I'm not aware of any campaign that we had           
 this month."                                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. FARMER indicated it was in March.                                         
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR said they haven't done anything since November.                 
                                                                               
 MR. FARMER said, "Okay, so the documents that were sent into the              
 ELF campaign for March - nothing happened?"                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HECKSCHIR indicated that was correct.  He said, "I would like             
 to have Mr. Kennedy, if he will, explain the difference between               
 effective radiated power and total radiated power because there               
 seems to be a big (indisc.) in how people believe as being put into           
 the ionosphere and what we can actually do."                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0923                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KENNEDY said one of the problems has been a misinterpretation             
 of what (indisc.) radiated power means.  When you cram 3.6                    
 megawatts into an antenna system, what that antenna system can do             
 is to lose about 3.6 megawatts and nothing more.  It's not a                  
 amplifying devise.  It's strictly (indisc.) allowing that 3.6                 
 megawatts to be radiated into space.  To do anything other than               
 that would be in violation of the principle and conservation of               
 energy which is one of the fundamental principles of physics.  So             
 (indisc.) HAARP (indisc.) concurs is 3.6 megawatts.  The most                 
 (indisc.) that can get into the ionosphere is also 3.6 megawatts.             
                                                                               
 Number 0978                                                                   
                                                                               
 TOM VAN BROCKLIN, Legislative Secretary to Representative Gene                
 Kubina, made a statement on behalf of Representative Kubina.  He              
 said, "Thank you Mr. Wilcox.  Representative Kubina, as you know,             
 had to head off for the floor this morning and regrets that                   
 (indisc.).  He did want to me to mention on his behalf that he                
 didn't feel that this closes the discussion on HAARP, but rather              
 opens up the subject for further discussion, as has been intimated            
 by a number of individuals today.  Further review seems to be a               
 factor here and particularly, as again has been stressed by a                 
 number of parties today, biological oversight.  Dr. Akasofu                   
 mentioned by monitoring, we'd be able to see if this system was               
 expanded in the future and that's the rate of oversight that needs            
 to be clarified.  Again, Representative Kubina wants to thank those           
 who testified today, those who took the time to listen in and hopes           
 that we can continue to pursue this subject and make certain that             
 Alaskans feel comfortable living with HAARP in their backyard.  Mr.           
 Wilcox, thank you."                                                           
                                                                               
 MR. WILCOX explained the idea of this meeting was to bring together           
 the various sides.  He said the minutes will be published and made            
 available to the legislative information offices around the state.            
 He thanked everybody who testified.                                           
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. WILCOX adjourned the House State affairs Committee meeting at             
 10:00 a.m.                                                                    
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects